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New Specialization Skills Are Contradictory

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Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.01 16:14:00 - [1] Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 30/09/2004 19:01:22 Linky See the above image. It shows the skill requirements to train for Large RailGun Specialization. A definition of specialization: Main Entry: speÀcialÀiÀzaÀtion Pronunciation: "spe-sh(&-)l&-'zA-sh&n Function: noun 1 : a making or becoming specialized 2 a : structural adaptation of a body part to a particular function or of an organism for life in a particular environment b : a body part or an organism adapted by specialization Specialization is a misnomer because we are being forced to specialize in areas in which we may hold no interest. Surely it would be a better idea to make the requirements only Level 5 in the associated weapon types rather than force battleship pilots to train up 2 further specializations just so we can gain an advantage in our chosen weapon. Why should I, as a battleship pilot, be forced to train Small Hybrid/Medium Hybrid specialization just so I can then train/specialize in Large Hybrids? It goes against the very idea of specialization and, to be honest, I think this is just another silent nerf on battleship users. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.01 16:14:00 - [2] Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 30/09/2004 19:01:22 Linky See the above image. It shows the skill requirements to train for Large RailGun Specialization. A definition of specialization: Main Entry: speÀcialÀiÀzaÀtion Pronunciation: "spe-sh(&-)l&-'zA-sh&n Function: noun 1 : a making or becoming specialized 2 a : structural adaptation of a body part to a particular function or of an organism for life in a particular environment b : a body part or an organism adapted by specialization Specialization is a misnomer because we are being forced to specialize in areas in which we may hold no interest. Surely it would be a better idea to make the requirements only Level 5 in the associated weapon types rather than force battleship pilots to train up 2 further specializations just so we can gain an advantage in our chosen weapon. Why should I, as a battleship pilot, be forced to train Small Hybrid/Medium Hybrid specialization just so I can then train/specialize in Large Hybrids? It goes against the very idea of specialization and, to be honest, I think this is just another silent nerf on battleship users. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.01 16:26:00 - [3] Originally by: Parallax Error Edited by: Parallax Error on 01/09/2004 16:21:15 I quite agree with this. Specialisation in large turrets should only be dependant on the large turret skills, not having medium and small as prerequisites. Instead of having specialist frigate, cruiser and battleship pilots you'll still have fairly generalised combat pilots. Exactly. Battleship pilots will now be specialized in weapons use across all classes just so they can use their favoured and most used weapons which surely contradicts the whole point of specializing. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.01 16:26:00 - [4] Originally by: Parallax Error Edited by: Parallax Error on 01/09/2004 16:21:15 I quite agree with this. Specialisation in large turrets should only be dependant on the large turret skills, not having medium and small as prerequisites. Instead of having specialist frigate, cruiser and battleship pilots you'll still have fairly generalised combat pilots. Exactly. Battleship pilots will now be specialized in weapons use across all classes just so they can use their favoured and most used weapons which surely contradicts the whole point of specializing. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.01 16:33:00 - [5] Small Weapon specialization should require the following skills: Small Hybrid or Projectile or Laser Level 5. Gunnery 3 Sharpshooter 3 for the long-range specialization/Motion Prediction 3 for short-range specialization Medium Weapon Specialization should require the following skills: Medium Hybrid or Projectile or Laser Level 5 Gunnery 4 Sharpshooter 4 for the long-range specialization/Motion Prediction 4 for the short-range specialization Large Weapon Specialization should require the following skills: Large Hybrid or Projectile or Laser Level 5 Gunnery 5 Sharpshooter 5 for long-range secialization/Motion Prediction 5 for the short-range specialization Something along those lines seems more suited to REAL specialization. If that leaves too little training time, then up the rank of the specialization skill. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.01 16:33:00 - [6] Small Weapon specialization should require the following skills: Small Hybrid or Projectile or Laser Level 5. Gunnery 3 Sharpshooter 3 for the long-range specialization/Motion Prediction 3 for short-range specialization Medium Weapon Specialization should require the following skills: Medium Hybrid or Projectile or Laser Level 5 Gunnery 4 Sharpshooter 4 for the long-range specialization/Motion Prediction 4 for the short-range specialization Large Weapon Specialization should require the following skills: Large Hybrid or Projectile or Laser Level 5 Gunnery 5 Sharpshooter 5 for long-range secialization/Motion Prediction 5 for the short-range specialization Something along those lines seems more suited to REAL specialization. If that leaves too little training time, then up the rank of the specialization skill. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.01 16:40:00 - [7] Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 01/09/2004 16:29:20 I don't agree. By that arguement you shouldn't need to train frigates to fly cruisers and then cruisers to fly battleships? Skill progression is a a good thing. Anyway, if it is easy to train then everyone will do it quickly - then it will be neither special or an advantage. The difference here is that I don't need Interceptor 5 (a specialized frigate skill) to train up for Cruiser Level 1. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.01 16:40:00 - [8] Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 01/09/2004 16:29:20 I don't agree. By that arguement you shouldn't need to train frigates to fly cruisers and then cruisers to fly battleships? Skill progression is a a good thing. Anyway, if it is easy to train then everyone will do it quickly - then it will be neither special or an advantage. The difference here is that I don't need Interceptor 5 (a specialized frigate skill) to train up for Cruiser Level 1. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.01 17:11:00 - [9] Originally by: DJTheBaron Originally by: Joshua Calvert *** and whine, whine and *, oh look at me, im on the forums again, oh oh devs, ccp, look at my post why the hell should any dev, gm, or ccp read a post just because they are placed in the title, they dont care, they have better things to do than listen to you summon them over trivial issues Whereas you, obviously, don't. Now shut the up and go smacktalk in Nonni some more. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!**
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.01 17:11:00 - [10] Originally by: DJTheBaron Originally by: Joshua Calvert *** and whine, whine and *, oh look at me, im on the forums again, oh oh devs, ccp, look at my post why the hell should any dev, gm, or ccp read a post just because they are placed in the title, they dont care, they have better things to do than listen to you summon them over trivial issues Whereas you, obviously, don't. Now shut the up and go smacktalk in Nonni some more. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!**
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.01 17:24:00 - [11] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Joshua Calvert Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 01/09/2004 16:29:20 I don't agree. By that arguement you shouldn't need to train frigates to fly cruisers and then cruisers to fly battleships? Skill progression is a a good thing. Anyway, if it is easy to train then everyone will do it quickly - then it will be neither special or an advantage. The difference here is that I don't need Interceptor 5 (a specialized frigate skill) to train up for Cruiser Level 1. lol, I was actually thinking the same thing as I was driving home Josh, it is a valid point. Maybe they should not be requirements, but I think there should be some type of bonus for having them all, or at least have the bigger gun bonus benefit in some way by from the level of the smaller ones. It would be sweet if the damage bonus stacked I think it's just a bit unfair that a person chosing to specialize in frigates/cruisers has less training time to get his specialization compared to a battleship pilot but then doesn't feel that specialized because every BS pilot has the same skills as him. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.01 17:24:00 - [12] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Joshua Calvert Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 01/09/2004 16:29:20 I don't agree. By that arguement you shouldn't need to train frigates to fly cruisers and then cruisers to fly battleships? Skill progression is a a good thing. Anyway, if it is easy to train then everyone will do it quickly - then it will be neither special or an advantage. The difference here is that I don't need Interceptor 5 (a specialized frigate skill) to train up for Cruiser Level 1. lol, I was actually thinking the same thing as I was driving home Josh, it is a valid point. Maybe they should not be requirements, but I think there should be some type of bonus for having them all, or at least have the bigger gun bonus benefit in some way by from the level of the smaller ones. It would be sweet if the damage bonus stacked I think it's just a bit unfair that a person chosing to specialize in frigates/cruisers has less training time to get his specialization compared to a battleship pilot but then doesn't feel that specialized because every BS pilot has the same skills as him. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.01 17:33:00 - [13] Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 01/09/2004 17:34:54 Originally by: olyyy I disagree here: 1. The heavy requirements are necessary for the use of those turrets. They give quite a nice bonus, the skill add a bonus, the lvl5 in large hybrid gives a nice bonus too... Having small and medium hybrid lvl5 is like having lvl4 in minmatar frig and cruiser to be able to train for the battleship skill. The Sharpshooter lvl5 requirement is like for elite frigs: there is a main skill required (lvl5 in a race frig) and another skill necessary which has a link with the elite frig (evasive maneuvering lvl5 for interceptors). 2. However 2 skills shouldn't be required imo: small and medium Railgun Specialization. But that's just a matter of view. Admit that you're just too lazy to train up your skill I have no issue with training the level 5 small/medium/ large skills. I do have a problem with being forced to specialize in turrets I am probably not going to use. It's not a question of laziness. It's a question of asking yourself, "Why don't elite cruisers need interceptor level 5?" because, at the end of the day, that's equivalent to these turret specialization skills. Skills, in general, don't make sense a lot of the time. Tech II modules require less skills than their Tech I versions...except for turrets/damage related modules? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.01 17:33:00 - [14] Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 01/09/2004 17:34:54 Originally by: olyyy I disagree here: 1. The heavy requirements are necessary for the use of those turrets. They give quite a nice bonus, the skill add a bonus, the lvl5 in large hybrid gives a nice bonus too... Having small and medium hybrid lvl5 is like having lvl4 in minmatar frig and cruiser to be able to train for the battleship skill. The Sharpshooter lvl5 requirement is like for elite frigs: there is a main skill required (lvl5 in a race frig) and another skill necessary which has a link with the elite frig (evasive maneuvering lvl5 for interceptors). 2. However 2 skills shouldn't be required imo: small and medium Railgun Specialization. But that's just a matter of view. Admit that you're just too lazy to train up your skill I have no issue with training the level 5 small/medium/ large skills. I do have a problem with being forced to specialize in turrets I am probably not going to use. It's not a question of laziness. It's a question of asking yourself, "Why don't elite cruisers need interceptor level 5?" because, at the end of the day, that's equivalent to these turret specialization skills. Skills, in general, don't make sense a lot of the time. Tech II modules require less skills than their Tech I versions...except for turrets/damage related modules? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.01 18:55:00 - [15] I want to specialize is large railguns. Why am I forced to specialize in small and medium railguns? It defeats the entire purpose of specialization when I'm forced to train skills I don't require. And, please, what is with the idea that specialization should be difficult? It should be a choice not a requirement. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.01 18:55:00 - [16] I want to specialize is large railguns. Why am I forced to specialize in small and medium railguns? It defeats the entire purpose of specialization when I'm forced to train skills I don't require. And, please, what is with the idea that specialization should be difficult? It should be a choice not a requirement. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.01 19:23:00 - [17] Originally by: Damajink Specialisation It can be spelled both ways. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.01 19:23:00 - [18] Originally by: Damajink Specialisation It can be spelled both ways. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.02 06:27:00 - [19] Originally by: The Enslaver I agree that you shouldn't have to train up in small or medium to a high level, at least not as high as this, to train large weapon specialization. However, the skill requirements should be just as severe for the large turrets, but they should require other skills at level five than they do at current. Yeah, I son't mind being forced to train sharpshooter 5 or rapid firing 5 or whatever because those will ultimately improve my guns. Specializing in small or medium rails will do nothing for my large railguns. MOO: No, I'm staying just to ** you off. Claire Scott: To the AltMobile? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!**
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.02 06:27:00 - [20] Originally by: The Enslaver I agree that you shouldn't have to train up in small or medium to a high level, at least not as high as this, to train large weapon specialization. However, the skill requirements should be just as severe for the large turrets, but they should require other skills at level five than they do at current. Yeah, I son't mind being forced to train sharpshooter 5 or rapid firing 5 or whatever because those will ultimately improve my guns. Specializing in small or medium rails will do nothing for my large railguns. MOO: No, I'm staying just to ** you off. Claire Scott: To the AltMobile? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!**
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.02 06:36:00 - [21] Originally by: Kerosene Edited by: Kerosene on 02/09/2004 04:10:49 Unless misinformed, It's a bit of a bugger that Large Hybrid 5 has no impact on tech 2 large hybrid weapons though.. Other than that I've shoved all the skills I need to fire a tech 2 425 railgun decently and it's... Sharpshooter 4 to 5 - 10d 20h (in training now) Small Hybrid Turret 3 to 5 - 6d 9h Medium Hybrid Turret 3 to 5 - 19d 3h Large Hybrid Turret 4 to 5 - 27d 2h Small Railgun Specialisation 0 to 4 - 3d 11h Medium Railgun Specialisation 0 to 4 - 5d 19h Large Railgun Specialisation 0 to 4 - 9d 7h Total - 82d 1h (November 23rd 2pm) A bit harsh because even though I have plonked myself on the path of large railguns and nothing else, I will be lucky to see much benefit from tech 2 425's over tech 1 as the stats stand at the moment. I'm not saying I should be a super killing machine, but I'd like a bit more bang for my '3 month training time' buck. Agreed with Josh btw. Yeah, 3 months training and most of that training will be spent on gun sizes I'm rarely going to use. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.02 06:36:00 - [22] Originally by: Kerosene Edited by: Kerosene on 02/09/2004 04:10:49 Unless misinformed, It's a bit of a bugger that Large Hybrid 5 has no impact on tech 2 large hybrid weapons though.. Other than that I've shoved all the skills I need to fire a tech 2 425 railgun decently and it's... Sharpshooter 4 to 5 - 10d 20h (in training now) Small Hybrid Turret 3 to 5 - 6d 9h Medium Hybrid Turret 3 to 5 - 19d 3h Large Hybrid Turret 4 to 5 - 27d 2h Small Railgun Specialisation 0 to 4 - 3d 11h Medium Railgun Specialisation 0 to 4 - 5d 19h Large Railgun Specialisation 0 to 4 - 9d 7h Total - 82d 1h (November 23rd 2pm) A bit harsh because even though I have plonked myself on the path of large railguns and nothing else, I will be lucky to see much benefit from tech 2 425's over tech 1 as the stats stand at the moment. I'm not saying I should be a super killing machine, but I'd like a bit more bang for my '3 month training time' buck. Agreed with Josh btw. Yeah, 3 months training and most of that training will be spent on gun sizes I'm rarely going to use. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.19 19:42:00 - [23] Originally by: Antinea I agree with Joshua... I dont mind the time spent specialising. I dont mind having several lvl 5 prereqs like Sharpshooter, Motion prediction, etc. I do mind having to train Small Specilization to lvl 4 in order to get Medium Specialization. It is pointless, and makes no sense. Does anyone have Large Specialization yet? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.19 19:42:00 - [24] Originally by: Antinea I agree with Joshua... I dont mind the time spent specialising. I dont mind having several lvl 5 prereqs like Sharpshooter, Motion prediction, etc. I do mind having to train Small Specilization to lvl 4 in order to get Medium Specialization. It is pointless, and makes no sense. Does anyone have Large Specialization yet? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.30 17:02:00 - [25] Real life analogies aside, the current specialization training method brings us back to a situation wherein a battleship pilot can do everything. It doesn't make a battleship specialized. It makes him an all-rounder. Only a frigate pilot could be considered specialized because he only has to train the first step to receive his advantage. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.30 17:02:00 - [26] Real life analogies aside, the current specialization training method brings us back to a situation wherein a battleship pilot can do everything. It doesn't make a battleship specialized. It makes him an all-rounder. Only a frigate pilot could be considered specialized because he only has to train the first step to receive his advantage. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.30 17:05:00 - [27] j0? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.30 17:05:00 - [28] j0? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.30 17:20:00 - [29] Originally by: Number SixtyNine ;p 'tis what you get for not training "Specialization: Forum Whoring, Corporation Discussions" all way to lvl.5 ... some info goes unnoticed -.^ Glad to see you're back. If you need anything to help you get back into the swing of things, just send me an evemail. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.30 17:20:00 - [30] Originally by: Number SixtyNine ;p 'tis what you get for not training "Specialization: Forum Whoring, Corporation Discussions" all way to lvl.5 ... some info goes unnoticed -.^ Glad to see you're back. If you need anything to help you get back into the swing of things, just send me an evemail. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.10.01 06:32:00 - [31] Originally by: Kaleigh Doyle Edited by: Kaleigh Doyle on 30/09/2004 19:27:11 Just a silly question, but with the recent changes to turret tracking and all, hasn't CCP encouraged the usage of multiple gun sizes on a battleship(obviously depending on your roles)? Wouldn't it be advantageous for a Battleship pilots to have better skills in the smaller guns as well?(i.e. to be an effective battleship pilot, you'll prolly wanna specialize in the smaller guns) Perhaps it was a subtle suggestion on the devs part. (edited for english readers ) If I want to specialize in small or medium guns to allow me to fit those smaller weapons more effectively, then I agree. However, the current system FORCES that choice. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.10.01 06:32:00 - [32] Originally by: Kaleigh Doyle Edited by: Kaleigh Doyle on 30/09/2004 19:27:11 Just a silly question, but with the recent changes to turret tracking and all, hasn't CCP encouraged the usage of multiple gun sizes on a battleship(obviously depending on your roles)? Wouldn't it be advantageous for a Battleship pilots to have better skills in the smaller guns as well?(i.e. to be an effective battleship pilot, you'll prolly wanna specialize in the smaller guns) Perhaps it was a subtle suggestion on the devs part. (edited for english readers ) If I want to specialize in small or medium guns to allow me to fit those smaller weapons more effectively, then I agree. However, the current system FORCES that choice. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

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